On the show today we’re talking changes, making mistakes, and getting STEM-y as we dive into Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math with early learners. This episodes guest co-host comes to us from the College Education and Human Ecology at The Ohio State University. Dr. Mandy McCormick Smith is an Assistant Professor of STEM Education in the Department of Teaching and Learning. Dr. McCormick Smith’s work focuses on Culturally Informed Pedagogies, Play-based Science Instruction, and Early Childhood/Elementary Science Education. Be sure to stick around for the end of the episode where we provide a few experiments you can do with your littles at home.
On the show today we’re talking changes, making mistakes, and getting STEM-y as we dive into Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math with early learners. This episodes guest co-host comes to us from the College Education and Human Ecology at The Ohio State University. Dr. Mandy McCormick Smith is an Assistant Professor of STEM Education in the Department of Teaching and Learning. Dr. McCormick Smith’s work focuses on Culturally Informed Pedagogies, Play-based Science Instruction, and Early Childhood/Elementary Science Education. Be sure to stick around for the end of the episode where we provide a few experiments you can do with your littles at home.
On the show today, we're taking chances, making mistakes and getting"STEM-Y". As we dive into science, technology, engineering, and math with little learners. From South Side Early Learning in Columbus, Ohio, gather round for Circle Time. Welcome to another episode of circle time. It is good as always to have. I'm Collin McGuinness, CEO of South side Early Learning. And your host on the podcast. Today's guest co-host comes to us from the college of education and human ecology at the Ohio state university. Dr. Mandy McCormick Smith is an assistant professor of STEM education and the department of teaching and learning. Dr. McCormick Smith's work focuses on culturally informed pedagogies play-based science instruction and early childhood and elementary science education. Be sure to stick around until the end of the episode, where we provide you with a few really fun experiments that you can do with your littles at home. Let's dive right in. Dr. McCormick Smith. Thank you for joining me on circle time today. I'm incredibly excited to have you and actually talk about something in the field of early childhood that I am relatively new to. Which will be fun. I think for everyone involved. But before we get started, I was hoping you could introduce yourself to the listeners of this week's episode. And then we will dive in with a handful of questions that we have about STEM education and early childhood.
Mandy:First of all, thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here today. So I am an assistant professor of STEM education. At Ohio state university in the college of education and human ecology, I'm in the department of teaching and learning. And within the STEM group. My area of specialty focuses on science education. I actually focus more on early childhood and elementary science. Education. However, I was a high school teacher for 11 years prior to this. But you'll never take me away from early childhood. STEM again.
Colin:So that was going to be my first question was how did you end up in STEM and early childhood? Because I know through my training, it wasn't even an option for me to consider when I was thinking about working in child development and with children under the age of five. So it sounds like there's a path here from high school to early childhood. What did that look like?
Mandy:Yeah, there is. You bring up a really good point because there should be more opportunities and more direct paths, right? So my husband and I, we were living in California and I was teaching at this amazing high school. And it was very diverse, ethnically racially linguistically. Across both campuses. And I was teaching chemistry and physics. And the population of my class reflected the population like the diversity. Within the school. But by the time students who were really successful in my chemistry and physics classes, got to AP. I looked across the classroom. And everybody looked like me. And so it didn't represent what I would see across the rest of the school. And I thought this is a problem. And so I started doing my master's work while we were in California and I did it while teaching and it was all around cross-cultural language and development. And I became very interested in this. also became very interested in the idea that high school kids had already made up their minds So If I wanted that excitement that like I have For science I need to start younger So I actually started looking at how to be a science education specialist at a district level And somehow I found my way into a PhD program and fell in love with it and I absolutely love working with teachers of young children and classrooms I am so thankful I get to do this And I'm so thankful for the odd way I came about it
Colin:Yeah So let's talk a little bit about that classroom itself So when we're thinking about preschool classrooms what the heck does STEM look like in a preschool classroom And that's actually the first question that we have from one of our parents because I think we're really good at Understanding the ABC's and one two threes of a preschool classroom When we start thinking about STEM and we know there's been a huge push really at that middle and high school level to diversify and broaden our STEM education Gets a little bit harder to see how that applies to early childhood So at the highest level could you break that down for me
Mandy:Sure I understand that it is difficult to sometimes peace out What are the different STEM parts that are happening in early childhood classroom However when I walk into an early childhood classroom it is easier for me pick out what is not STEM Because everything that's happening in early childhood classrooms in preschool classrooms Children are exploring It's an inquiry-based approach So there's nothing more natural to pair with STEM than this kind of emergent curriculum driven by children's interests something as simple as playing with materials and understanding that water pours faster than maybe syrup So these are the early foundations of Physical properties right We're not going to use all of those language terms those technical language terms With childhood or young children we can start with their words this is slippery this is more it looks like goop right start with children's words and then work them into Understanding this is a physical property of this piece of matter At the water table where they're exploring or at a light table where they are looking at if something is opaque or if light can pass through it All of these are fostering the nature of science and the practices of being a scientist actually preschool hasn't made get to totally do science all the time which is amazing and It's encouraged at this stage
Colin:Yeah I know when I got started in the field early childhood it was almost from that same scientific point And it was less about maybe the academic approach And for me a major driver is play so when walking into an early childhood classroom and seeing all this play that was happening it was research for me And I was realizing that some of the best researchers that I was able to work with weren't necessarily the faculty that I interacted with every day But these innate tinkerers that are in these early childhood classrooms that I was doing my projects in And there's this magic to it And I think what a lot of parents when we talk about STEM at Southside early learning Luiz is maybe how to connect these science these engineering concepts these math concepts in but then also fully understanding what the benefits are and why we focus so much on STEM and again when our goals kindergarten readiness it's a little bit easier to understand the language and math components but can you talk a little bit about some of these benefits of STEM in the early years
Mandy:think about how STEM progresses over a child's education Usually by the time that we hit fifth grade and we have at least here there's a state test for fifth grade content but that's the first time we see A science content test So usually it's very easy for some parts of STEM to be ignored quite a few years But by the time we reached that point If we don't have children interested or feeling efficacious about this area It just feels like another hurdle We feel like we've already been kept out And then we don't have the right tools to dive into this But by fostering this love of inquiry and allowing it to happen and supporting it and allow children to questions and write their own investigations Children are better investigators than adults and we know that through the schooling process unfortunately a lot of it has to do with time These kinds of natural spaces for inquiry and open inquiry get shut out And there's also a point Where Science does become a lot more about a memorization And it does become more about the content but if in these early years we can really support children and finding that identity finding belonging with that and that they are doing the practices of scientist It doesn't have to be the practices of scientists going on in an adult lab They are the scientists of this classroom They're discovering new things each day So having early experiences and having that identity Is very important for them moving forward and continuing on Really in thriving in STEM
Colin:I'm personally really interested in infants and toddlers I love my preschool Liddell's but I have a soft spot for the infants and toddlers mainly because of how much brain developments happening at that time And from what I'm hearing it sounds like there's a really easy connection to this idea of discovery and inquiry that's happening particularly in those toddler years How would you recommend maybe to an infant toddler teacher Because we'll talk about parents in a little bit but a teacher in fostering some of these STEM concepts in the infant toddler years where maybe there isn't the same robustness if it is even robust of professional development that a preschool teacher could get
Mandy:Sure I think Providing as many different types of opportunities So we're making sure there's enough time to explore outdoors across all of the seasons right So that children are observing change over time Having young children sit and just play with foam or shaving cream then wash their hands and go over and play with flour or sugar or right Like understanding really early that these are tactile Differences And we can start that early with our senses because that's how we make observations which will later turn into We collect data through our observations So it's all building on one another everybody says Am I really doing science in a toddler room Okay You might not be splitting an atom but yes you are laying the foundation for science for the rest of these children's lives
Colin:Something that happens a lot in our classrooms because we have these gorgeous windows floor to ceiling and we're fortunate enough to have outdoor space right outside All of our classrooms is we'll set up some plants when it's nice in the spring weather and we'll have bird feeders all year And I know something that is very popular in our toddler rooms is to have a picture of different types of birds that we know we're in the neighborhood And every time a bird will fly up to the feeder our littles will go up and they'll be able to Mark that down or they'll Indicate that they see it and we'll keep track of that And I think what happens a lot is we get so focused on the word STEM specifically that we fail to realize some of the things that maybe we're putting in the math bin actually fall into this observation in inquiry bin and is something that we could explore a little bit more And I'm hoping that we can provide some insight here On some things that we can do at home So for our parents that are listening If we're thinking about wanting to build a love of science and thinking that maybe there is something to this early childhood STEM component what could we be doing at home Particularly now the pandemic is still happening which is a science topic All of its own How can we create these STEM focused activities maybe for folks that aren't super comfortable with STEM as a concept themselves
Mandy:Sure And I think this is a really important statement I tell my students who are going to be teachers all the time that you don't have to have all of the science answers so parents And teachers don't have to have all the science answers And I think part of that is what keeps some of us from engaging in STEM Because we think we have to know all the answers I can tell you right now I have my sciences that are my favorites There's things I don't know I've been doing this for a long time So for parents who don't have the answers I think it's always great when I don't have the answers I say I don't know Let's go investigate that together so not having the answers Is great because you're also modeling like that's okay Let's go Find one And there are ways in classrooms that we can do that And then there are ways that adults at home can help us do that Any time that you are on a walk with your child or driving in the car Anytime that you can ask questions of them So I I really liked to ask productive questions Young children So that like what do you notice about tree What do you notice about the leaves on this leaf How are they similar How are they different So just drawing children's attention to different things in their everyday life Is helping with those observation skills They are collecting data as they like They are explaining their data As they're looking at this leaf and they're saying this one is oblong and this one Looks it looks different It looks more like it's got spikes on it And then comparing those right so I think you don't have to have all the answers Whatever catches your child's interest If it's the bugs on the sidewalk Take a minute and watch the bugs on the sidewalk and then ask some questions What color were they Were they slow Are they fast Did they fly Did they walk All of these sorts of experiences are really adding to our repertoire of science and STEM experiences with our world
Colin:I think there's a bit of caution around the STEM vernacular science words Aren't always fun words And when we're thinking through that how important is the word itself Is there this level of I'm here to teach the word Is it more I'm here to play with the concept itself and we'll worry about the words later I know I'm thinking if I were to Go into the building tomorrow and interact somewhere red ladles And we were to go ahead and pull together a sensory table And we had Palm palms in there and we had some rice and I don't know maybe we throw some toys at the bottom Maybe some of the cars are metal Some of the blocks are wood and we're starting to feel through these things I could go in and talk about density of the objects and it could get very complicated very quick where's the thread that we want to pull together when we start engaging in some of these activities
Mandy:That's a great question so the thread is the children how are they describing it What's their word with everything we train meet our students where they're at go in and we could talk a lot about density and we could write some formulas on the board and that's not going to serve anybody just earlier this week We were having children I was observing via zoom but children were using the plastic pipettes or eyedroppers right But it was pretty clear that not everybody in this classroom understood the word pipette I had just asked one of the children what would you call this And it was colored water shooter Which makes way more sense to a three-year-old then the word pipette And you know what a really great descriptor And so we used that for awhile and we will use it again maybe at our next learning event next week but we will eventually then move that to a more scientific conception As they get older and we can give them the words now it takes hearing a word many times before we come up with the correct conception of it And science words can be very difficult giving them the word but allowing them to use their own language because that's going to mean so much more to them Then just the word density I would rather hear a child Explain why something floats and why some things sinks Besides knowing or being able to define density
Colin:I know from work that's been done both in early childhood but also in the older years around math how we End up in a space where students are not confident in their math abilities and how that plays a large part into some of the differentiation that we see in terms of gender in math careers later on And I'm wondering as we begin to think of play maybe as more experiment and we begin to incorporate some of these words how important is it to identify what we're doing as science is there literature that supports this idea that it's going to Create better self-esteem with science as little as get older what is what's happening in that space And it might be something that's too new for early childhood research to even have some formal academic work on but what are your thoughts there
Mandy:So that work is still emerging and yes we know that the sense of identity and belonging from an early age does help improve career trajectories And so I prefer not to look at that but like how does this look at upper elementary How does this luck and middle school and our students able to purchase cyst into high school it's still a little new for that because this is the data's still coming out But I think that we have seen that Early identification Has helped broaden participation in other fields STEM particularly science and math ed Have been very Late to the early childhood game And if you look across our fields there's very few of us in the early childhood elementary space compared to the upper grades and higher ed but we certainly are trying to figure out giving kids the identity the positive identity association sometimes I'll get I'll have classrooms that have full on lab coats and clipboards they feel like They are the scientists We need to tell them they are doing science They're not just preschool Yes They're exploring doing science are doing STEM
Colin:I know there's robust options when it comes to Shows and games and apps for early childhood around language and literacy on the emerging reading skills the fundamentals there Are there any I won't say good Are there any recommendable outlets for STEM itself So I know not necessarily early childhood but more of the elementary years for me that was something like a bill Nye the science guy which really created this enthusiasm It was fun It was cool It's something to do what about the media aspect Of STEM for preschool Is that something Worth looking into at this point
Mandy:So I have only been tangentially involved in those spaces just because I'm typically in classroom spaces But I do think that we've had an increase in better programming I do have several colleagues who are looking at representation particularly Within some of the PBS type Programming I know there's a Sid the science kid that was out for awhile I know that there have been some more Sesame street and there are some excellent coding applications for young children to try I think after say I'm a little selfish after this year of Ken demic I would love for children to be off of a device And in nature Making observations or at least playing with something hands on So I got to say I'm a little lax in my Early childhood app selection at the moment
Colin:okay give you a pass on that one
Mandy:you
Colin:Let's talk a little bit though about some of the opportunities at least locally here in Columbus for engaging in STEM so I know we are super fortunate to have Kocide in the city And I know there are some other areas of opportunity for some fun STEM related content could you clue us into some of those things in the post pandemic world Or we can start engaging a little bit more with the city itself with a STEM lens
Mandy:we actually have quite an expanded list at OSU of just urban gardens around Columbus taking tours of those the ones that are in particularly associated with schools or community organizations that serve young children those are always incredible to go visit And then to hear the youth ambassadors tell you why they planted what how far apart they had to have it how they learned all of this it's just really amazing The Ohio history connection A lot of people don't necessarily think of it as STEM right away but they have a lot of STEM Materials and outreach and very interesting to go see an experience the mounds are not too far away I'm trying to think All of our Metro parks Obviously we can see some great geology and rock formations as well as wildlife And plant life might be all I have right now
Colin:It's a better list than up with So I
Mandy:Basically I just liked to take children into taken by like a watershed or like a Creek bed
Colin:yeah And I think the other Maybe obvious answer that just now popped into my head and probably is the same reason that it didn't pop in tears is our backyards themselves
Mandy:Yeah Yeah
Colin:we can do there with what do we see What is the cloud look like why does it look like that
Mandy:And I think that was what I was trying to say earlier Like with parents like you don't have to be anywhere just your own backyard Your walk home from school whatever it is They're just ask start asking questions
Colin:Is there a Simple We'll use simple and science together Is there a a simple or a go-to Mini experiment or activity that we could maybe talk through here And maybe I can get one of my teachers to demo it and we'll put it with the show notes for the podcast But if you had a parent that came up to you and said I really have a budding scientist here I really want to do something that's fun and cool Easy for me to understand what's happening or at least easy for me to understand how the put together so we can engage with this What would maybe be one of your go-to is to try at home
Mandy:So it would depend on how long they wanted to spend on it But great demo for kids And it's nice for an early childhood classroom or at home because you don't have to watch it the whole time so this comes back to the idea of Making observations over long periods of time and then asking like pointing kids back to the data and Pictorial forms but getting to empty plastic cups Filling them halfway with water and putting yellow food coloring in one and blue in the other or any primary food coloring And then taking a paper towel Rolling it into a long tube folding it total of three cups So you've got your two cups with water and then an empty cup in the middle The green the yellow cap and the blue cup would each have a paper towel in them But you will eventually see is that the water is going to climb up the paper towel And get deposited into the middle Empty glass And students would be able to make wonderful observations over long periods of time so that they could come make an observation Go play Come back an hour later make an observation take a picture of it with a device Go out and play and then come back and and then you can do that with more colors as well That's an easier traveling rainbow kids really like
Colin:So what I'm if I'm picturing this right in my head we have three cups one on the left one on the right and one in the middle We have a jug of water We fill up the cup on the left and the cup on the right Cup on the right Get some yellow food coloring cup on the left's going to get some blue food coloring We take our Paper towel bod rolled up in like a log Put it in each of the colors Do we connect those into the empty cup
Mandy:They don't need to touch in the empty cup but they just need to get into the empty gap
Colin:Okay And then what should see is some green happening in the middle Maybe we'll
Mandy:Maybe you should try it I don't know
Colin:We'll have to give that one a try I would love to see some chains of cups and colors Take the picture do the observation go ahead tag at circle time pod send it to us on Twitter We will take a look at what those are while we're playing with water and food coloring One of my favorite things to do and this one's a little bit of a quicker one you take an ice tray and make some colored ice And then I get a piece of like twine or string freeze your ice cubes that have fun colors on them get a little bowl of salt Put the ice cubes in a row lay your string on top of it have your little pickup the string and realize nothing's going to happen Sprinkle salt on top put the string back down And now in the pickup the string they'll have almost like Garland of ice which is gonna melt and you won't have to worry about cleanup too much later You can do it over the sink and it's a really easy clean but even If not we'll use some of the paper towels from your experiment there and clean it all up but that one's as quick as it takes the freeze ice and then ice melt that one's fun one to try to talk about what happens when we change some of those properties there and what salt does to ice and water Yeah and I think what's awesome about both of these is we can get into the science of why behind it Or we can just do more of the visual observation and kind of that excitement and wonder of not quite knowing what's happening but allowing our littles to go ahead and play through this self discovery themselves So with the cups like we were talking about you could end up with a whole chain of cups connecting into one another and probably ending up with a Brown soupy mess at the end but it's okay It's water We can clean it up And I think that is the magic at least in my mind of STEM in The first five years
Mandy:agree
Colin:So again I would love to see pictures of these things Tag at circle time pod. I don't know if there's anywhere in the Twitter sphere that your work lives otag@CircleTimePod connect things too.
Mandy:I am@OSUSTEMinist.
Colin:Awesome. We will make sure that gets tagged as well and connected into some of these show notes. But I have had an awesome time chatting today. Thank you so much for talking about. The why and the how of STEM in the first five years, I hope this was meaningful for those listening and maybe Dispelled some of the myths that we have about what STEM has to look like. But thank you again for joining on Circle Time today.
Mandy:Thank you for inviting me.
Colin:If you are loving the show, as much as we are loving, making it, be sure to find us on Spotify, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts to subscribe. We put out new episodes every other Friday and season two is going to be filled with amazing co-hosts and topics that you want to hear about everything from adapting home environments, to littles with intellectual or developmental delays. To navigating big tantrums. Be sure to share what's on your mind by visiting circletimepod.com or tweeting us at@CircleTimePod. I especially want to see pictures of those science experiments from this week show. From South Side Early Learning I'm Colin McGinnis, this is Circle Time and we'll see in the next episode.